もうすぐ絶滅するという紙の書物について

もうすぐ絶滅するという紙の書物について

知識と知識の殴り合い。

真実について理論を立てようとすると贋物が必ず出てきて難癖をつけます。贋物のもとになった本物と贋物を比較することができるのなら、その贋物が本当に贋物なのかどうかを知るすべがあります。それより難しいのは、本物が本物であることを証明することです。


脚本家・劇作家のジャン=クロード・カリエールと、記号学者・作家のウンベルト・エーコがくりひげる教養と知識のプロレス。
まさに情報の奔流。
知識の波に押しつぶされそうになる。
でも、堅物の学者なんかじゃない2人の会話は、情熱的で面白い。
ぐるぐるとめまぐるしく流れる会話に魅了されました。

引用したい箇所が多過ぎて困りました。
ちなみに、C=カリエール、E=エーコです。

始めは表題通りというか、電子化の流れの中で本はどのような存在になるか、ということ。

E:可能性は二つに一つです。本が読書の媒体として残ってゆくか、もしくは、本が印刷技術の発明以前においてさえ担っていた、そして担いつづけてきた役割を担う、本とは似て非なる何かが登場するか。物としての本のバリエーションは、機能の点でも、構造の点でも、五百年前となんら変わっていません。本は、スプーンやハンマー、鋏と同じようなものです。一度発明したら、それ以上うまく作りようがない。

また、本は車輪と同じように、これ以上完成しようのない形態だ、と語られます。
しかし、何も2人は本を完全無欠のもの、として捉えているのではなく、単純にこれ以上進化しようのない存在として扱っています。
素晴らしく完成されているし、それは同時に、これ以上進化することはできない、ということも表しています。

話はそのまま技術について触れらていきます。

技術は絶え間なく進歩しています。
黒電話は今や姿を消し、僕たちは小型のコンピューターのようなスマートフォンを使っています。
ビデオが使える家庭は減り、ブルーレイの高画質にはもう慣れたもんです。

これらの進歩は、僕たちの生活を便利にするようにみえます。
しかし、本当にそうでしょうか?

E:技術の更新があまりに速いために、こちらも耐えがたい速度で思考習慣を再編しつづけていなければならにということは、たしかにありますね。二年に一回はコンピューターを買い替えなければならない。なぜなら、コンピューターというのはそういうふうにできているのです。一定の時間がたつと仕様期限切れになって、修理すると買い替えるより高くつくようになっている。自動車も、モデルの更新ごとに安全性が向上し、付属の電子機器も改善されてくるので、毎年買い替えなければならなくなってきています。そして新しい技術が導入されると、新しい反射神経を獲得すべく、新たな努力を強いられるわけです。

大量のテープを持っていたとします。そこには多くの貴重な映画が詰め込まれています。
さて見よう、という算段になった時、それを使うためのプレーヤーは今やどこにもない。
大量のテープは、ゴミクズへと姿を変えます。
ゴミクズにさせないためには、新しい保存形態が生れる度に、好むと好まざるに関係なく更新し続けなければいけないのです。

C:そして終わりのない学習についてのお話は、いわゆる「退職者」の人々にも通用します。どれだけのお年寄りが情報処理の知識習得を強いられてきたでしょう。この先何年それを使って生活できるのかはっきりわからないのに。私たちは終身学習刑を宣告されているのです。

リモコンなんて、まさに、という感じじゃないでしょうか。
びっしりとへばりつくたくさんのカラフルなボタン。
どれが何のための機能なのかよく分からない。
しかも、その大多数は死ぬまで使わないだろうに。

pcにもiphoneにも便利なアプリがたくさんあります。
でも、僕はその多くを使っていません。
使い方を調べ、覚える。その過程がなんだか面倒くさくて手が伸びません。
そして気を抜いていると、新たに便利なサービスが顔を出します。

また、ネットは非常に多くの知識を持っています。
僕らなんかじゃとても歯が立ちません。
どんな物知りな人も、googleやwikipediaには決して勝てないでしょう。
では、知識の意味とは何なのでしょうか。

E:教養とはナポレオンの没年月日を正確に知っていることではないという意見に、私も賛成です。ですが、知っておけることは何でも知っておく、ナポレオンの没年月日一八二一年五月五日という日付だって、知っておくことで、ある種の知的自立性を確保できます。
これは昨日今日出てきた問題ではありません。印刷術の発明がすでに、できれば備蓄する手間を省きたい教養を「冷蔵」する、つまり何冊もの書物に振り分けて、一時的に必要になる情報がどこにあるかだけわかっていればいいようにする格好の機会だったのです。つまり、記憶の一部分を書物や機械に委ねるわけですが、これらの道具の長所を最大限に引き出さなければならないことに代わりはないわけでして、ということはつまり、自分自身の記憶を維持しなければならいということです。

さて、ここで僕の非常に個人的な考えなのですが、僕は昔から考えることは料理と同じだ、と思っています。

料理に必要なのは、具材料理の腕です。
ここでの具材とは知識であり、料理の腕とは知恵です。
どんなに高級な食材、伊勢エビやらトリュフやらがあっても、料理経験のない人はそれらを活かしておいしいご飯はつくれません。
しかし、食材が冷蔵庫の残りのように乏しくても、料理のうまい人はそれなりのものをつくってしまいます。

どんなに知識を頭に詰めこんでいても、それを使えなければ宝の持ち腐れ。
多くの知識を持っていなくても、その使いようを分かってさえいればいくらでもいい策は練れます。

そして今、知識の部分はその多くをネットが肩代わりしてくれるようになりました。
それは僕らを全能にしたんでしょうか。
むしろ、それをどう使うかという知恵が要求されているように思います。

またインターネットは、強烈なグローバリゼーションをもたらしました。
これもまた、僕らの知の部分に一撃を加えてきます。

E:諸文化は、保存すべきものと忘れるべきものを示すことで、フィルタリングを行います。その意味で、文化は我々に、暗黙裡の共通基盤を提供しています。間違いに関してもそうです。ガリレイが導いた革命を理解するには、どうしてもプトレマイオスの学説を出発点にしなければなりません。ガリレイの段階までたどり着くには、プトレマイオスの段階を共有しなければいけないし、プトレマイオスが間違っているということをわかっていなければいけない。何の議論をするにしても、共通の百科事典を基盤にしていなければいけません。ナポレオンなどという人物はじつは存在しなかった、ということを立証することだってできないはない——でもそれは、我々が三人とも、ナポレオンという人物がいたということを知識として学んで知っているからです。対話の継続を保証するのはまさにそれなんです。こういった群居性によってこそ、対話や創造や自由が可能になってくるんです。
インターネットはすべてを与えてくれますが、それによって我々は、すでにご指摘なさったとおり、もはや文化という仲介によらず、自分自身の頭でフィルタリングを行うことを余儀なくされ、結果的にいまや、世の中に六十億冊の百科事典があるのと同じようなことになりかねないのです。これはあらゆる相互理解の妨げになるでしょう。

この考えは目からウロコだったし、同時に深く納得させられました。
何かを議論する時は、そもそもお互いが同じ土俵に立っていなければ成り立ちません。

これは、ある種宗教に似ているんじゃないでしょうか。
宗教同士の対立において、基本的に勝敗が決まることは決してありません。
基本的にというのは、教義の上で、ということです。
相手側の宗教、つまり信仰する人々を全員亡き者にすれば、それは勝ったと言えるかも知れません。
しかし、純粋な勝負は決してできません。
なぜなら、お互いの世界の解釈の仕方が異なるからです。
いわば、それぞれが別世界に生きているんです。ここで議論は成り立ちません。

世の中に六十億冊の百科事典があるのと同じようなことになりかねないのです。

これはつまり、六十億人それぞれが、自分の宗教を持つということではないでしょうか。
宗教は、信仰、主義としてもいいです。
ネットに溢れる膨大な情報を、自分の好みでカスタマイズし作る自分だけの宗教。グローバリゼーションは、世界をひとつにするどころか、全ての人を孤独にしたのかも知れません。

カリエールとエーコは、古書の収集家でもありません。エーコの蔵書は、なんと5万冊です。
なので、いわゆる古典と呼ばれる作品も、ふたりは多くを読んでいます。
しかし面白いのが、定番と呼ばれる古典は必ず読んでいるのか、というとそうでもない。カリエールとその友人が一冊の古典の解釈について議論していて、最後に確認してみたところ、二人ともその本を実際に読んでことはなかった、ということもあったそうです。

でも僕たちも、読んだことはないけど内容は何となく知っている、という作品は多いですよね。
『吾輩は猫である』を読んだことはなくても、猫がしゃべる社会風刺のような作品、ということを知っている方は少なくないと思います。

では、古典とはいったいどういった存在なんでしょうか。

E:書物の一冊一冊には、時の流れのなかで、我々が加えた解釈がこにりついています。我々はシェイクスピアを、シェイクスピアが書いたようには読みません。したがって我々のシェイクスピアは、書かれた当時に読まれたシェイクスピアよりずっと豊かなんです。

〜中略〜

こういったことはエリオットが『ハムレット論』ですでに言い尽くしています。『ハムレット』は傑作ではない。出どころの異なる複数の要素が調和しそこない、とっちらかった悲劇である、と。だからこそ、『ハムレット』は謎めいているのであり、誰もが『ハムレット』について考えつづけるわけです。『ハムレット』が傑作なのは文学的に優れているからじゃないんです。『ハムレット』が傑作になったのは、『ハムレット』が我々の解釈に逆らうからです。

確かに、古典は難解なものが多いですね。
読んでみたけどつまらない、というのはよくあることです。
でもやっぱり、その「分からない」ということが気になって、「分かりたい」という思いから僕たちは古典にも手を伸ばすのだろうなぁ、と思います。

全部が納得できて、するすると違和感なく自分を通り抜ける作品。
もちろん、それも楽しい読書経験の1つです。
しかし、うまく咀嚼できない、抵抗感を覚えると、それはしこりのように自分の中に残ります。
だから古典は、多くの人に忘れられずに生き残っているんじゃないでしょうか。

そんな本好きな二人。
特に、カリエールの言葉はその本への立場というか、気持ちをよく表しています。

C:自分の持っている後ろめたい性癖を正当化しようと思って言うんですが、収集家は自分にとって当別な本と接するとき、ほとんど人が人として人と接するような接し方をすることがありますね、自分の書庫にある蔵書というのは、仲間みたいなもの、生きた友達、個人の集まりみたいなものなんです。ちょっと落ち込んだり、ちょっと憂鬱だったりするときには、書庫に行けばいい。本はちゃんとそこにいてくれます。

ちょっと話は変わりますが、ブックディレクターの幅允孝さんも、本の特性につ
いて似たようなことをおっしゃっています。

「読んだ本の内容はすぐ忘れてしまいます。でも、本は記憶の外部装置のようなものなんです。本棚を見れば、本がそこにある。その確からしさが、本の持つ特徴のひとつだと思います」

といった感じのことをおっしゃっています。

子どものころから読んでいる本、折れ曲がり汚れてしまった本。
僕はこれらの本を、忘れています。日々の生活の中で、自分の本棚にある本に思いをよせることはありません。
でも、本棚にいけば、間違いなく彼らはいます。僕から出向けば、必ず会えるのです。

非常に僕に近い友人、という感覚です。
僕の一部となっている部分もあるでしょう。
でも、紙を束ねた本という物体になって、本棚にいてくれる。
なんだかそれには、カリエールと同じように大きな安心感を覚えます。

カバーをはずすと真っ黒な裏表紙に、紙のふちが青いという、何とも重厚というか不気味な一冊。
でもそれは、現代の黒魔術のように、自分が触れたことのない、ワクワクする知識の塊でした。
ここで紹介したのも、本当にごくわずかなことでしかありません。

引用から分かる通り、ふたりの語り口はとても滑らかで、やわらく洗練された教養がうかがいしれます。
決して難しい、凝り固まった対談ではありません。

ぜひ、この知識の海にダイブしてみてください。

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